Ep. 123 - Crossing A Wild River with Leigh-Ann Webster

Leigh-Ann Webster is a nationally recognized leader in health coaching and behavior change who helps individuals and communities build sustainable habits that support long term well-being. As the former Executive Director of the National Board for Health and Wellness Coaching, she played a central role in shaping and standardizing the health and wellness coaching profession. During her tenure, NBHWC grew into a global standard-setting organization and certified more than 10,000 health and wellness coaches worldwide, helping establish coaching as an essential part of healthcare and lifestyle change.

She is the founder of 52 Healthy Weeks, an organization dedicated to helping people reconnect with movement, nature, and their health. Through writing, coaching, and community engagement, Leigh-Ann encourages people to challenge themselves, spend more time outdoors, and build resilience through consistent action. Her work blends evidence based behavior change with outdoor endurance and adventure as a pathway to stronger physical and mental health.

A National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach, Certified Personal Trainer, and Certified Sports Nutrition Coach, Leigh-Ann has spent more than a decade coaching individuals and mentoring emerging leaders in the health and wellness field. Her approach focuses not only on what to change, but how to change in ways that are realistic, meaningful, and sustainable.

An avid endurance hiker and adventurer, Leigh-Ann has completed the John Muir Trail, summited Mt. Whitney multiple times, and participated in numerous endurance events. These experiences reinforce her belief that growth and transformation come from taking small, consistent steps supported by purpose, accountability, and community.

Leigh-Ann currently serves as Board Chair of the Mission Valley YMCA in San Diego, CA and is a board member for Overwatch 6, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting veterans and strengthening veteran communities. Through her writing, speaking, and consulting, she continues to champion healthier living and the expanding role of trained health coaches in improving lives and communities.

Transcript

Welcome And The Mental Mess

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hello and welcome to Clean Your Fucking House, bitch, with Nancy, Kevin, and Lou. In our program, we get real about the challenges of life and living. Your mind is the most powerful tool you have to ensure you are on your desired path for success and satisfaction. Yet, from the day you are born, you gradually and subconsciously fill it with tons of useless shit that gets in your way. Why is that? How can you clean that mess up? We'll show you how. Get ready to clean your fucking house.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Hi, everybody. We have a special guest joining us today. She is an outdoor enthusiast and a leader in health coaching and behavior change. She's a writer, a speaker, a consultant. She supports individuals and communities through the YMCA and the veterans organizations in the CN San Diego area. However, her efforts have had a national reach as she spent nine years as the director of the NBHWC, which is the National Board of Health and Wellness Coaching. Our guest today is Leanne Webster. And while there are so many juicy directions, all of our conversation could go. I don't know about everyone else, but I'd love to be able to start with outdoor adventures and really what inspired you and what you gained from them.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

So I think that it's just a part of who I am. My parents started backpacking very early on in their marriage, and then they had me very early on in their marriage, too. So yeah, I think I just always really enjoyed um backpacking, um, camping. We did not um grow up, you know, with a lot of money. My dad was just out of the Air Force when I was born, and he hadn't even started college yet. So um I think for them it was a really, you know, getting outside and doing things as a family was a a really good, affordable way to still have vacations. Um and so yes, so like think it's just part of who I am. And and then after college, I moved up to Mammoth Lakes, California, which is actually where I happen to be right now, um, just for the week. And um just kind of always loved getting outside, connecting with nature. I especially love it now because I often won't have my phone with me or I won't have it on. So it's just kind of a nice break.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

There's such an influence that comes from things we've done when we were young, too, right? I love the naturalness, the ease that comes with it, even when it's challenging. Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Yeah. It and you know, I think that uh I've always just really enjoyed challenging myself and um choosing something difficult to do. I think um the first time I climbed Mount Whitney, which is the highest um peak in the continental United States, I was 19 or 20. And my friend and I were like, yeah, let's go climb Mount Whitney. I think we brought a quart of water and a couple baked potatoes. I mean, it's terrible, right? Like, I don't even know how I survived um those years, right? Because now we're so planned and um meticulous about preparing and making sure you bring the right food and the amount of calories and the amount of water and hydration. Um, but back then we just like did it.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

We could, our bodies could, and the mind followed, I guess. Or the mind could and the body followed. You just did it. I don't even know how. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Things were so different back then. Heck, a lot of us walk to school like five miles at five years old. I'm like, oh my goodness, you could never do that these days.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

And let your kids I mean, you guys, we when my friend Peter and I decided to climb Mount Whitney, we didn't have a you didn't need to get a permit the way you do now, right? So now there's this whole lottery system. It's it's a lot of work to actually get that permit and be able to do it. Back then, you you you needed a permit, but you just went to the permit station and and you asked for a permit and it wasn't an issue. We didn't have a place to camp um the morning. This is back in, you know, like I said, 19 or 20. So we slept in the trunk of his mom's car because we thought, yeah, that just sounds like a good idea. We'll park in Lone Pine. We don't want to pay for a hotel, we'll just open the back of the trunk and put our sleeping bags in it and and and not close it, obviously. But like those were the things I did. And um, and uh, you know, I think you just kind of it gets in your head and and you just keep going that way and doing all kinds of adventures. Now I obviously would not do that, um, but back then it seemed like a good idea. You would climb Mount Whitney, I would guess you just won't sleep in the trunk of a car. I will climb Mount Whitney. Although actually it was it's it's so it's the end of the John Muir Trail. So the official um start of the John Muir Trail is uh Happy Isles in Yosemite, and then the end of the John Muir Trail is at the top of Mount Whitney, and we just did that um in 2024, and on the way down from Mount Whitney back to um the Lone Pine area, I was like, I'm never gonna do that again. But then I don't know, it just gets in your head and you start thinking about it again. Of course you will, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:06

What I like about that story is just taking action, like in retrospect, it's like, well, we could have planned better, and how did we make it back? But just taking the first step and getting out there versus being paralyzed by overthinking or overplanning or fear of consequence. We talk about that a lot here. It's like just take that first step.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

I couldn't agree with you more. I talked to a lot of people about that. Sometimes um we tend to overthink what could happen, what could go wrong, why we can't do it, how we're gonna do it. But I do think if you just jump in, of course, you know, preparation, especially in the outdoors, you've gonna have certain, you want to have a jacket, you want to have light. You know, there's there's certain things you need. But I also think that we're incredibly resilient and um and strong and we learn from the struggle. And so it is really important to sometimes just jump in and then say, oh, I hope I can do it.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

Plus, I think you can always modify. It doesn't mean that that a hundred percent that you might have had one path mapped out and you hit an obstacle and you take another or you go around it and you find your way back. Like it doesn't have to be written in stone.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah, and and that's even a great way to start our day every day with that mindset of I can do it, I can take on what I'm about to take on work-wise or whatever the case might be. I mean, it's common for people when they first wake up, oh my goodness, I gotta do that report. I'm a week late, and I got this and that going on, and it's so much negativity, it probably is like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Yeah, I agree, I agree. And yeah, sometimes you just have to try.

unknown 8:04

Yeah.

Wildlife Encounters And Real Risk

SPEAKER_01 8:04

So with all that outdoorsy um adventures, I'm sure you have other exciting stories to share besides, say, the sleeping in the trunk. Like I am curious, have you ever run into a bear or anything like that?

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Or I mean, not as much as you would think, right? Like you would think that we would have seen so many bears. Um, I have seen grizzly bears in Yellowstone and Glacier National Park. Um, but most of the outdoor stuff we do is in California. Um, so we do have um uh black bears here, but they're not as aggressive as the grizzly bear. Um, we so in 2024, my husband, my son, who was 19 at the time, and then his two friends, we all did the John Muir Trail together. So um that is over 200 miles um through the center of the Sierras, right? And um, we we did not see a bear the entire time. One time we thought we heard a bear and we were very excited, um, but it was not if it was a bear, we never saw it. So yeah, um, I don't see as many bears as you'd think. Um in the times that I have, it's been fairly um unexpected and often in more of an urban environment, like in the town of Lake Tahoe or in the town of Mammoth Lakes and not so much in the wilderness.

SPEAKER_03 9:36

Literally, the last time I was in Yosemite, we were on the mist trail. That's the start of the John Meere Trail. And there was a bear. It was right there 10 feet off the trail. It was just shocking, but it didn't it didn't need we didn't bother it, and it was not gonna engage with others. Like they don't want to be involved in our lives either. I don't think they are anything actually. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

The animal that actually I think we should fear a bit more than a bear in California would be um like bison and yellowstone. They can be very aggressive and very unpredictable. And there was one time when my husband and my son and I were hiking and we were just on this trail, everything was going great, we were just talking, and then all of a sudden we just heard the sound of a bison and saw all this dust. And oh my gosh, we just like all kind of ran into each other and turned around and got out of there as quickly as we could.

SPEAKER_04 10:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

You were smart enough to know to do that. Yeah, yeah. And great point, unpredictable stuff lands in life every day. For sure. In that instance, you turned around. Like sometimes that's the best thing to do. Step away, step back, separate yourself. What other kinds of unpredictable things did you run into? And what in the big scheme of things did that I don't want to say, but those are the words on the tip of my tongue.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

So being outdoors.

unknown 11:12

Yeah.

The John Muir Trail River Crossing

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Um, I think that one of the biggest challenges, and though we knew about it, I think you could say it was unpredictable because we didn't expect it to be as difficult as it was. Um when we were when we were about to do the John Muir Trail, so on Facebook or or other social media pages, um, there's all these groups that you can join, right? So there's the John Muir Trail page, there's the Pacific Crest Trail page, the Appalachian Trail page, and you can get a lot of insider information about the trail at that time. And so um there was a bridge that was out um more than 100 miles in on the hike. And the bridge was out, and so you had to navigate your way either around the San Joaquin River or through the San Joaquin River. And so if you went around, it was an extra 30 miles, but that really factors in when you're carrying weight and food, right? Because you have these resupply points where you actually like mail your you mail your food in like Home Depot orange buckets, and then you pick it up in the middle of the forest in the middle of nowhere, right? But you can only carry so much food. Like I can, I, I can only no matter how much I work out, I'm pretty much anything over 35 pounds, and that's pushing it. I can't do. And so we decided, yeah, we'll go ahead and cross the river because we were watching the social media pages and other people had done it. And so we knew that if we got up really early in the morning and and we were there by like 6 a.m., we should be okay because the water would be lower. Um, I think that the unpredictable thing in that, well, it looked predictable when you look at it, right? You're like, okay, I just have to get from here to here across the river. So we watched a couple do it ahead of us. She got stuck in the middle for a good 10 to 15 minutes, was very incredibly stressful to watch. And I mean, we just all were just really just hoping and praying for her to make it. And she did. And um, so then when it was my turn to go, I think I just thought, okay, I know it's moving fast, but like I'll be able to do this. And I got out in the middle and I got a bit turned around because of the force of the water. And I had there was a boulder in front of me, which was making the water that much stronger. And I just remember I had my trekking poles dug in with every single ounce of my being to not fall down and to actually, they were just like um shaking so dramatically, like the poles, and just to lift my foot to take that next step was it's the hardest, most scary thing to date in my entire life. And um, so I would say that would be the unpredictability, right? Where you're looking at the water, you realize there's it, there's some white water, you realize it's gonna be hard, but then you're in it and you're like, oh my gosh, this is it. Like, I I'm either gonna make it or I'm not. And I need to decide in this moment that I'm going to make it.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

What'd you say to yourself? Like that's where the mentalness has to come to play with the physicality. I think I just said I have to.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Like I had to. I I just had to.

SPEAKER_05 14:42

Is this a metaphor for life?

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Yes. I guess so. I don't know. I really though I was like, you have to lift, you have to stabilize yourself enough. You cannot fall, and you have to somehow get the pole up and plant it so that I could take the next step. But I I mean the force of water, I can't emphasize that enough to anyone who's um listening to this, is just pay attention to the force of water. It is so much more than you think it will be.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

At least for a woman of my size, I will say. I think water is surprising to everyone, the power and magnitude of what it the force that it brings. And yeah. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

For sure. And that's life too, right? Sometimes we have these challenges that are unpredictable, and you have to get through it. It could be in your job, it could be with your kids, it could be a medical emergency or a chronic condition, and and somehow you just have to like mentally try to get through it.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah, you mentioned the word resilience earlier, and that was something we talked about not that long ago in terms of when someone may be, and this happens with many of us in life, you're just you have the ups and downs, and someone may be on a downward spiral. They get to a point where they're like, I just can't deal with this shit anymore. I gotta change, I gotta do something, I'm not gonna let this keep going. It's killing me. I mean, there's just so much more that goes through one's head under those circumstances and say normal levels of stress, if you will. And there's where that human resilience really kicks in.

Write It Down To Clear Your Mind

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, um, you know, this is obviously not like dealing with sport or activity, but more the mental side of it. I think if there is something that you have to navigate through, um, sometimes just taking a pen and paper, not your computer, not your phone, but an actual like pen and paper. I'm a little old school that way. Um, writing it out and getting it out of your head, getting right, like, okay, so what needs to happen? What needs to happen so I can get through whatever I am trying to work through? And I think that can be incredibly helpful when you no longer are living in only your head, right?

SPEAKER_03 17:06

There's evidence around that. And and literally they say the biggest thing to clear mental clutter is to write it down. You've kind of removed it, it's not out of bed, but you've it's changed its position. It's able to definitely be less uh less heavy in the front of your head. I don't know, making that part up, but yeah, I think choice keeps coming to mind for me because you're choosing to continue. You could have the turning around might have been as difficult, but you chose that river versus 30 miles extra because of all the valid reasons for that. And choice is one thing that helps us find the ability to move forward too. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

So does community. Yeah, for sure. Because I was in a community at that moment. I had a community of um my husband, my son, and two other 19-year-olds, right? So, like, of course they're gonna go through the river. Um, but it it wasn't just that community, it was also the community that I began to know as we were doing that, you know, 200 plus mile trail. You start to see the same people, right? So it was like, okay, well, I know they must have gotten across it because I didn't see them today, or the people behind us, they they know we're gonna do it today at 6 a.m. So there's something to be said about community and a little bit of pressure, right? A little, I guess, leaving a little bit of ego. Um, and but also um the importance of community, and that was um the woman who had gone before me, who I didn't, we did not know them. It was a uh husband and wife in their 60s who ended up just being the most amazing people to get to know. Um she was on the other side and she had been stuck, right? So when I got out, I immediately went to her and I said, Hey, great job not giving up. You know, like that took so much. And she was crying, and it was like instantly we formed a bond, and instantly we were like tight, you know, we were strangers, we didn't know each other, and um, I still have her number in my phone, you know. And um, so I think there's a lot to be said for when you're going through a difficult moment, using the river kind of as a metaphor, um, relying on the community to maybe put a little bit of pressure on you, but also to be there to support you. Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

And I like that, rely on them even. Like, I don't think we think to do that often enough. It feels like relying on others is giving a part of our responsibility away when actually it's the right thing to do. Like that's where support comes from, and we shouldn't be hesitant to take advantage of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

You know, it's amazing. That kind of mindset in the workplace is very common too, and and how ironic, meaning the mindset of I'll just do it myself rather than pull someone else in either because I can do it quicker, or that fear of job insecurity, I think might be the phrase where I might lose my job if I teach someone else how to do it. And yet, as I've learned, I guess the hard way, you know, when you can't do it all, you have to unload. And as the more I've done my heck, I'm able to get more done and and climb the ladder, metaphorically speaking, in terms of other things I'm able to learn and develop with my own profession. And I'm like, Well, you know, this is a good thing. So relying on community is a great thing.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

Well, so this adventure some life has been all you've known per se, and you're still living it. How did how did coaching come into your life?

How Leanne Found Health Coaching

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Oh, yeah. So um it's interesting. I so my background, when I was in college, I worked at SeaWorld in San Diego and I started out in education. Um, you know, I was like one of the people who said, How many people know the five characteristics of a mammal? Right. So that that's what I did. And then um I moved into marketing, and then from there ended up having really more of a marketing and um communications career. Um, I started a business called Communications 360. This was back in the late 90s, and I was writing a lot for different um nonprofit organizations, and then uh met my husband and um got pregnant fairly quickly, and then decided uh to be a stay at home mom, at least for a while. And after doing that for a couple of years, I just wanted to do something um in addition to that. And so I was very much into health and wellness. A lot of the clients. That I had had for communications 360 were in health and wellness. And um I was walking by a Barnes and Noble and I saw a book called The Wellness Revolution. And I went inside and looked at it. And then I was like, I'm gonna get into that. And so I really didn't know exactly what I was even getting into. I just um this was back in like probably around 2007. I just Googled wellness, I don't know, wellness practitioner. I don't even know exactly what I, but it had the term wellness, and then well coaches came up. And so um, and well coaches um was founded by Margaret Moore, who also is one of the founders of MBHWC. And um so I enrolled in this course, and really the only I enrolled because it it was back then, you know, you kind of relied on what came up first in the search engines. And I kind what I thought I was getting into was much more directive, right? So I thought that I was getting into a profession that would tell people how to be healthier, and then in the first day of the first class, which back then we dialed in. Um, it wasn't even on video, it was just a two-hour class that you dialed into either once or twice a week. First class, I thought, this way, this is not what I signed up for. I didn't what? You know, like I just didn't really know what they were talking about. But then pretty soon, you know, a few minutes into the class, the psychology of it, the behavior change, um, I was hooked. And um, so that's how I got into coaching. You know, I completed the entire well coach program, and um, and then I launched a business called 52 Healthy Weeks. Um, back then, too, well coaches would not certify you as a well coach unless you were a doctor, a nurse, or they had a whole list, and one of them was personal trainer, and that was kind of like the one thing I could get. Um, and so I thought, okay, I gotta become a personal trainer too. So I did, and then I ended up loving it, and um, yeah, and then that's how I got into coaching and personal training and endurance type sports.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

The endurance, the outdoor activities, the adventuresome is what allowed for the coaching to happen too, because that at that time I can't even imagine that you had to have one of those criteria to be uh a lifestyle. I don't even want to say health coach, because I think many people misinterpret what that could be. There's for sure lifestyle coach, but there's so many different kinds of focuses for coaching, and how cool that the physical activity is the thing that really launched it for you.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Yeah, because I was a sociology major. So I contacted well coaches and I said, Hey, like sociology is like the study of humans, right? Like you it it really makes sense that you should accept this degree, and they would not make an exception. And so I was like, okay, I have to go to plan B. So then I just like spent three months really studying and um and then you know took the exam to become a certified personal trainer, and then I could get the well coached certification. And this was uh gosh, like five or six or seven years before um MBHWC and the whole board certification even launched.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

What's your favorite part of all of that? I mean, there's like I said earlier, there's so much juiciness in all of this that we could go on any tangents, but having it evolved to that, and and I'm kind of chuckling about do they even remember the way that you tried to convince them to take you on and give you certification to then your role that you've spent in leading the board?

Building Board Certified Coaching Standards

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Like, yeah, I mean, so yeah, I mean, they remember because I reminded them. Um, but um and what's my favorite part of all of it? I mean, I guess the my favorite part of um the whole I was with the National Board for Health and Wellness Coaching for about nine and a half years. I think my favorite part is that we did something that was a really heavy lift, like really heavy, and we did it, and it was we so reliant on a real a volunteer group, right? So the board of directors was founded or the the nonprofit organization was formally founded in 2012, right? Um but that the group that did the work to take it to where um it had to go, right? So it I don't want to say that took it to where it is today because now it's um the board has turned over, you know, obviously, like it's been, you know, well over a decade, but the amount of work that everybody did and and the um it really was like a family of people who came together who didn't know each other, right? So every person who was on the original board, they were all coming from a different background in coaching, a different school. And they didn't even necessarily know about each other because it wasn't a unified profession at that point. So it was really rather amazing to me that this group. So my favorite part is that it was rather amazing to me that this group was able to do all this with just volunteer hours because volunteer hours and obviously like a heavy academic background and a thorough knowledge of um the in of the knowledge tasks and skills of of what a coach actually does, that they could come together and do all that was amazing. And I didn't, you know, I was the first person they ever hired, but that wasn't until 2015. So um it's pretty amazing, you know, that's community, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:04

It talks about and that community doesn't have to be like people, it just has to be people with a similar desire so that you can support each other to make something grow.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Definitely, and also the ability to compromise and negotiate and accept because remember, coaching was not defined yet, right? They wrote the paper that defined coaching, but that paper didn't come out until I want to say 2014, 13 or 14, right? So they had to come to an agreement, and that coming to agreement was very difficult. I mean, I sat in on a lot of very difficult meetings over the years to come to agreement to then decide to publish something or you know, decide what would be on the exam. It was it was tough.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

Yeah, to compromise and negotiate. There was a third thing you said though, what was it? Oh well, I I don't remember. But yeah. Oh yeah. I think they support relationships of any kind. You don't have to give up what you believe, but find a place where that belief can still be supported by compromising and negotiating. Right, right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

And I saw a lot of that when the actual um training, education, and assessment standards were being developed, right? So that was a lot of heavy work with a group of people who were all subject matter experts. And they had to, you know, come to agreement about a lot of things in order to actually define the profession. And then once everything was defined, that's when you can begin working on the exam. But you can't work on the exam until you actually define the profession and what it means.

What Coaching Really Looks Like

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Yeah, no doubt. That makes sense to me. I'm gonna put Kevin on the spot only because Kevin Leanne also worked um with OSW people, and Kevin took the OSW coach training program. And thinking back to that, was there anything about it that surprised you? I mean, you already had a mindset and exposure in coaching, but was there anything about going through a board certified program that felt new or different or surprising?

SPEAKER_05 30:38

I think there was a lot of context provided that I didn't fully grasp, like I had a general understanding. Um, the biggest takeaway for me was just the community aspect and trying to see through others' lenses and be compassionate and empathetic towards others, um, and then meeting people where they are, right? Leanne, you mentioned kind of what you thought you were getting into versus what it really was, right? It's not directing, it's not even really relying on the coach's expertise. What you're trying to do is kind of support and pull out the expertise of the person that you're coaching, right? And so just you know, asking the right questions and getting them to to a spot where they feel comfortable, and then guiding themselves. And you mentioned like we think we overthink everything, right? But if you can get it out on paper, like that's a way to do it in a like some type of structure, and I think that's one of the biggest impacts that a coach can have. And what you mentioned, Leanne, I think like just what uh what a community of people with a common goal, Nancy, like you mentioned, is able to come together and create. What came to mind for me was that the industry, coaching itself, is just full of people that are so passionate, they'll do the work as a volunteer. They don't have to get paid right now, like it's about being other people-centered, and when you can focus on helping others, like it does create a different drive, a different level of creativity, a different space. I think that's that's the most beautiful thing of the coaching industry to me.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

I agree. I I think that there's just so much passion, and people enter the field because they truly um have a mindset where they want to encourage others, right? They want other people around them to be the best version of themselves. And so coaches are very giving people.

SPEAKER_05 32:40

Leanne, would you would you? I just had this thought, and I'm not sure. You would know way better than me, but would you say that most of the coaches or people that you meet in that space, they've also walked through that river of life. They've taken the steps, they've they've conquered their own personal challenges to get to that spot. Now they want to help others with their own individual challenges.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

I would say some, but not all. I I think a lot of people do become coaches because they have been on a journey. Um, perhaps they've had some sort of chronic health condition that they've either learned to manage or overcome. And so they have a real passion for helping others. Um, I I think, yeah, there are a lot of coaches who do come into the field that way. Um, a lot of coaches, though, don't necessarily um they could be making a career change. And um at this point, I think there's a bit of a better understanding about what coaching is, right? And they may be real interested in like the psychology of behavior change, um, and uh, you know, helping people move from A to B. But I do think a lot of coaches um have had, you know, challenges that they've worked through and they want to share how they did it.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Many, yes, but also none. Sometimes I guess I've run across a variety of people.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's and how they're very much a variety, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

But I think you're right, Kevin. There is this certain other level of passion because it is someone who comes with empathy and caring and wants to uh provide that kind of space for people around them too.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Well I think we can certainly say we know of people who would probably not make very good coaches. So it you know, there's a a skill set personality trait, whatever you want to call it, that um is sort of built in.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

It may not be there's learned aspects too. Like I can tell you uh I'm not always a good coach, and sometimes I'm like, oh, for I hear myself. And it's like, wait, I gotta read, I gotta change. You know, you could shift within a session, even sometimes when you veer off, because we have natural tendencies to lead or direct when it's not our intention. So the best intentions are out there no matter what what foundation it comes from, I think.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Yeah. And I also think um to further expand upon your question, Kevin, as the industry has evolved, we've also seen it um in many different like aspects of the world, right? So now we see coaching really evolving in pediatrics, right? So you might have someone who's really passionate about um helping families uh be healthier, right? So they may end up in in um pediatric health coaching. Then you have um I've seen school systems start to bring health and wellness coaches on board, right? So they may, and a lot of those coaches may actually be have teaching as their primary profession. Um, so so that could be someone who's never had a chronic health condition, but they are a passionate teacher and they're also interested in coaching, um, or veterans, right? Like I'm um very involved in the veterans community. Um uh it's it's a contract role that I have, um, and it's an organization called Veterans Talking to Veterans. And these are a lot of these veterans are combat veterans who have worked through um their their own uh stress issues into uh uh moving into a state of post-traumatic growth. And so they they're coming at it from a completely different angle. So, and then like um, you know, we see the work being done at the YMCAs, right? So um it just totally depends on people come into the profession for all different reasons.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

I love the idea of veterans talking to veterans, right? What a great way to support each other through you know, create a safe space, find comfort, and help people forward.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Yeah, what's really cool is that all the veterans who are part of that program have completed an MBHWC accredited health coach training program.

SPEAKER_03 37:27

Damn.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Yeah, so that's pretty cool. Yeah.

Nature As A Practical Wellness Tool

SPEAKER_05 37:32

Leanne, going back to the original topic of the outdoors, do you feel like outdoor experiences are a tool or like a necessary component of wellness?

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Okay, so I naturally lean toward like I love to work physically hard and sweat and um push myself. I find a lot of joy in that. I also know that not everybody does, right? So um, my very best friend from high school on day one, we met in PE class, and I said, Oh, that was a fun class. And she said, I hate to sweat. And and then we, you know, we've had a what 40-year friendship, 30, 40-year friendship, right? Long friendship. Um, but but through that friendship and other friendships that I have with people who are not drawn to like physical work. Um, what I would say is we need to lean into nature and lean into the outdoors and understand that perhaps not everyone is gonna get the same um feelings that I have when they're out there, you know, really pushing themselves um on a trail. Um, but we all should lean into nature.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

Yeah, totally. I mean, it might be that there's someone who can really only walk and sit outdoors, but even just the idea of getting outdoors can be impactful.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

For sure. And I um one topic that I'm very interested in, and I, you know, I need I want to get certified in and do more is forest bathing, right? So I think with forest bathing, you that it's all about connecting with nature, connecting with the earth, touching trees, paying attention to your surroundings, um, mindfulness, right? It's essentially mindfulness out there, but but we need to make that accessible to everyone and um you know, everyone, right? Not everyone can physically get out there. Um, so yeah. So I call it leaning into nature. Love that.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Is that an expansion on the principle of grounding?

SPEAKER_02 39:51

I think so. Yeah, yeah. So um forest bathing is a Japanese um concept, and I can't really speak too much to it because I it's something that I would really love to study and get to know more about.

SPEAKER_05 40:09

Immersing oneself in nature using all five senses to boost health, reduce stress, and improve well-being. I looked it up immediately. I never heard of it. It's all sounded.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, and Kevin has always told us he likes to go run in the trees.

SPEAKER_05 40:25

Like it's just so relaxing and like no matter how busy life is and how loud everything gets, so much stimulus everywhere, just like a walk through the trees, and I'm just like, uh then the phone rings when I'm done. It's it's fine. I'll come back tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Agree. Plus, I think like for trail running, and again, it's you know, different activities speak to different people, but with trail running, I mean, you have to pay attention, right? Like you have to pay attention to the rocks, the roots, not trip, not fall. And so I think it's especially attractive if someone has a really busy mind because it just calms you down, and you also have to focus on what you're doing. You can't think about a million other things. Yeah, so I think that's very uh and you if you talk to like mountain bikers, rock climbers, or even um like a like an artist or someone doing ceramics, it's the same thing. They're connecting with they're concentrating, right? Yeah, focusing.

SPEAKER_05 41:35

Yeah, finding that thing that resonates for you and then the noise turns off. And you can dive deep into it.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

Definitely. Oh my gosh. Well, I I guess what we're just uh reinforcing for ourselves that we all already knew is that all of these things, the physical things help the mind ease, and letting go of stressors in the mind helps the body be at ease. And both of those just help with our well-being, whether it's definitely you know, uh mental stress or a chronic illness or just a bad day. Right. Well, we hope that there will be a time that we can we can just explore further topics. There's so much um that we could talk about with you, Leanne. And we're so grateful to have you with us today. Is there anything that you feel like you really wanna be able to say or is heard before we before we depart today? And before you do that, well, no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

I am curious how you came up with the name for your podcast.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

I love that you asked, guys.

SPEAKER_05 42:45

Who remembers?

SPEAKER_03 42:46

I do.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

I sort of do, and you know, probably like most things, Lean, I think it emanated from a place of maybe jest or like not total seriousness at first, but then after we made a connection with the the vision, the visual of what that really means. And yeah, yeah, literally, it was like all three of us kind of maybe talking and a little bit of joking, but then the dynamic between the three of us was like an idea went further, then further, then further, and it was just like the collection. Um, that's sort of what I remember. But Nancy, I'm I could be off. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Right on, no, you're right on. You know, we tossed around kind of ideas, but they all felt too formal and stiff, and that's our real mission. Like we want to keep our own head clear of stuff that gets in the way. And um we realized how much we liked talking about this stuff that we wanted to have the opportunity for if some if it was meaningful for someone else, we wanted them to hear too. And if they didn't like the topic, then they weren't for us. So we rolled.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Yeah, I mean, I your answer is what I figured. Like that's what I thought was it you you It's interesting because in health coaching, health and wellness coaching, a lot of times you you know, I would sit down with somebody and then we start talking about say let's say they wanted to start working out, they wanted to create an exercise plan. And and then next thing you know, they're talking about how messy their kitchen is. And that they don't have comfortable workout clothes. And so there's all these barriers that get in the way, and they're unable to do what they actually want to do because of these other barriers that have to do with kind of a messy life, yeah, right. So that was what I was figuring that you were kind of what you were kind of going for, and it made sense to me.

SPEAKER_05 44:48

Thank you for that, Leanne. Because next time we get asked that question, that's what we're gonna say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

Well, they're one of those things.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

No, the irony is that I kind of have a reputation for never cussing, and so when so I I skied today because we're in Mammoth, and then we went out to lunch and we were with some of our for uh another couple, and they said, Oh, you I said I was gonna be on a podcast, and they say, Well, what's the name? And I told them the name, and then I'm like, and it's kind of funny because I never cuss. And then uh Alan, one of the guys, he's like, I don't think I've ever heard you cuss. And I'm like, I and it's just the way I was raised, right? Like, it's just the way it is. Um, and it's not like I'm against it, it's just you know, Catholic school, right? 12 years of Catholic school. So anyway, I just think it's just so funny that I'm on this show, and also it makes sense to me what why you chose the name.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

And there's a bit of the irony, is we you you've been conditioned that cussing is bad.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

They're just words, yes, they're just words. Like, why would any word just be worse or better or whatever than any other word? Yeah, clean your hat. Well, throw in a couple of extra cuss words, and it really emphasizes the point that it's just a what you totally agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

No, I agree. And I used to work for a uh professional triathlete and as uh her business manager, and she was from Scotland and her husband was from the UK, so like, of course, right? Like, I mean, it it also it's cultural, so yeah, I like the name and I appreciate it, and I love that I've been on your show.

SPEAKER_05 46:25

Thank you. We appreciate you coming on. Yes, really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 46:28

Absolutely. And for all the listeners that want to know, when we publish this podcast, we will also include a brief bio and um access where you can learn more about Leanne. Thank you. Yeah, for sure.

Final Thanks And Goodbye

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Okay, well, that concludes today's episode. We hope everyone enjoyed listening to these wonderful stories that Leanne shared with us on her outdoor adventures. And we hope you join us for our next episode. Bye for now.