How Much Should we Value Sleep?

Sleep is something that everyone does, but even science still has yet to define why it is we sleep.  Some of us get good sleep, some of us don't.  What are the effects we can expect with the amount of sleep we get?  What are some ways we can increase our ability to get good, restful sleep?  Tune in to this episode to find out!

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Transcript

Lou: 0:10

Hello, and welcome to clean your fucking house pitch with Nancy, Kevin and Luke. In our program, we get real above the challenges of life and living. Your mind is the most powerful tool you have to ensure you are on your desired path for success and satisfaction. Yet from the day you were born, you gradually and subconsciously fill it with tons of useless shit that gets in your way. Why is that? How can you clean that mess up? We'll show you how to get ready to clean your fucking house.

Nancy: 0:51

Hi, everybody. Thanks for tuning in to our podcast. Today, we're going to talk about sleep. This is something that we all need to do, right. But it isn't always something that we can easily or naturally do. And recently, I read an article that suggested one way to improve our sleep is to clear your mind, which is exactly what we're about clearing your fucking house. So I thought we'd start this conversation out with a question or a couple of questions. But so guys, on a scale of one to 10, how do you value your sleep? How important is it to you?

Lou: 1:30

Certainly a 1010 1010, if not higher. Okay. Oh, sleep is so valuable. It's amazing how most? Well, a lot of folks I know don't think about that. It's just seems to be a part of their life in a way that they don't give it any attention. Except during those times when they don't have quality sleep. And you can see it in their crankiness the next day.

Nancy: 1:56

All right, this does happen. This does happen. I have another question for you based on that, Lou. But Kevin, how do you value sleep might not be a 10. For you, it might be a seven or an eight, I don't know.

Kevin: 2:09

I think I do value it, I think I probably put in like nine or 10 range to I used to operate on a lot less sleep, I think like five hours a night for for a fairly long period of time. And now I just realized that it's so important for me with like physical recovery. With mental and emotional wellness, I noticed a correlation between how much good sleep I get, I guess I get that, you know, just laying in bed and getting crummy sleep isn't really doing the job. So I've noticed a correlation between how good I feel and how well I function when I get quality sleep. And even when I was getting less sleep, I still felt like I was, you know, operating at a high level. And it wasn't until I started really forcing myself to go to bed early. Because I was getting up early that I realized how much better off I was how much more focused I was how much more energy I had stuff like that. It's funny

Nancy: 3:19

that we don't know what we don't know. Right? Like you thought you were good. You just didn't know that you weren't necessarily. Yeah. So so both of you, then you know you value it highly. But what would you rate the quality of sleep that you

Lou: 3:34

do get? Oh, go first I in the reason I kind of slightly hesitated as I'm thinking. Like with most folks, it varies over time, depending on what's going on. I would say do I get solid quality sleep every night? No. But I have more quality sleep at least now than I have had years ago. Because of the fact of the subject matter we talk about and how I clearness awareness and helping myself to understand thinking about the past and I catch myself in a lot of things, some deep breaths and meditative type exercises. If I'm having trouble falling asleep, the bottom line is boy I used to have very poor quality sleep years ago, which was interesting that a lot of poor quality sleep I had years ago was during a time when I was more secure. Meaning I had a regular nine to five very little responsibility. You know there was I had a regular schedule all day with going to the gym and doing this and studying and all that so I had a lot more structure to my day organization and security. And yet I had less quality sleep. Sorry, yeah, less quality than

Nancy: 4:56

other times. It sounds like you stretched yourself out like you knew Little bit these things on the other end, were secure and they were going to be there for you. So you could stretch yourself out with activities that might impede your sleep. Whereas now you're like, I'm going to make sure I'm ready for whatever comes because it's so much more important to you. I think I think I'm hearing now I'm putting words in your mouth. But I think that you feel better about what you're doing now. Right?

Lou: 5:22

Well, that's certainly a big part of it. I know, when I made the transition, there's where a lot of poor quality sleep started to creep in. Because I knew I didn't want to do something else. I knew I wanted to do something new, but not having a lot of the knowledge that I do now about what that new thing is, I didn't have the tools and things to help me get better quality sleep. So Wow, talk about chest pains and mind racing and all of these things that literally sweating and things that made my sleep. So poor quality, because of anxiety worrying about, is this going to work? And am I going to be successful, etc, all that kind of stuff. And that at all thinking about the belief and the commitment and the things we talk about. Because at that time again, I was still learning this, I didn't know a lot about it. But I will say since then there's been ups and downs. Because yes, what we do is so different for me, then what I used to do that every now and then those elements of uncertainty may creep in, especially as we evolve and grow and change because I know that is the way it should be. But whenever there's a new element to something like, oh, let's start a new project or a new venture, or even a new aspect of our podcasts, you know, that little bit of change sometimes still can creep into our, our subconscious, even though all of us know better that that is healthy, you know, immediately dismissed.

Nancy: 6:40

Yeah, that uncertainty? Are you saying that uncertainty can get in your way. Toward now?

Lou: 6:47

Well, kind of both it does initially get in the way, it's almost like some of those bad habits still come up, but less frequently. So I am better able to deal with it now than before. And even I would say much quicker. You know, there could be long stretches of time. And I will say when I did have very poor quality sleep, it would be say weeks of that. And then at the end of that there would come a day when I would just literally collapse. I was so exhausted, that that would be the best quality sleep I had. Because I'd be so excited. I would just pass out.

Nancy: 7:21

a breaking point your body said enough. I'm taking over? Yeah,

Lou: 7:25

no, that's just not a good way to have it is, you know, two, three weeks of this intense, often poor quality. And then one day of good Come on.

Nancy: 7:33

Although I will tell you but Kevin, I have a question for you too. But But I will tell you, I read an article and I'm not good at knowing from here. But research was done. And it was done with people in the military because sometimes they're forced to stretch beyond like without sleep and continue in high intense activities without sleeping. And that sounds crazy to me. I don't think I could do it. But what this research showed is that once you get even if you're sleep deprived for three or four days, once you get a full eight hours that that is enough to recuperate your body. I mean, you might sleep longer because your buying might just be exhausted, but but you can make it up in one night. It's not like if you lost a lot of sleep over time you need all these days to make it up. But But Kevin, you know, something you said struck me because like you used to maybe not sleep well and push through I think for myself too. And a younger mindset. There was some idea I can push through if I can power through it. I'm good. Like I felt better. Oh yeah, I'm good on five hours asleep, you know, is if I was I was better or something and I really wasn't I was hindering myself and being arrogant at the same time.

Kevin: 8:51

I think that's what society kind of tells us though. Like work your ass off, make a ton of money and and I think a lot of what we talked about in the podcast is narrowing your focus more towards what you need, versus what it's kind of programmed to tell you and the whole that was what the sleep thing was for me where and I think you know, as you get into certain age brackets, you do your lifestyle changes, you go out late party with friends, whatever. You know, it's kind of different. You don't really focus as much on like asleep. Right? And yeah, you I kind of I don't know, kind of get used to it. I just got to a point where I had started working out getting up early and I you know, would go to bed at midnight getting up at like 435 o'clock and I was just like beat. You know what I mean? And I did like I thought I felt good. But at that time too. I think it wasn't even quality sleep that I was getting. I'm not a very good sleeper like on my own. You know, it's fun. Actually, when you're stressed out, your cortisol levels are high, which inhibits melatonin production. And so people are kind of like tossing and turning, I don't, I typically don't sleep really deep, unless I take melatonin, which I tend to do to get better sleep.

Nancy: 10:18

So you get a good night's sleep, when you take melatonin are there other times that you've noticed that you ended up getting a good night's sleep?

Kevin: 10:24

I guess if I am kind of drained from being really busy, but then it requires that you're able to detach from everything that you were doing, and not be thinking about it. You know, it's just like, I guess sleep is similar. I look at it similarly, as like, having to create a work life balance working from home. You know, I know, we all we did some talks on that presentations before. But at a certain point, it's important to kind of turn off, right, and not worry about your phone. And just allow you to have that you time where you're not going to be disturbed, you know, carving that time out so that you can get quality rest.

Nancy: 11:09

Yeah, well, we'll go there later to because there are some things and that's definitely one of them on the list is to minimize things that stimulate your mind. Right, give yourself yeah, yeah. And not to and not to go to bed until you're ready to go to sleep.

Kevin: 11:34

Yeah, creating a routine. Yeah. So that your brain starts to follow.

Lou: 11:41

Create a habit. Yeah. And I'm sure folks are familiar with if not, you can easily Google this to learn the do's and don'ts of what to do as you're getting ready for sleep. So turn off the phone, turn off the TV, I guess any, I guess I'll call it non soothing music, you know, things that are keep your keep you kind of hyper as opposed to calm. Which is weird, because I think even reading a book saying an e reader or a tablet or anything like that is probably not good versus reading it right from paper. So when I read from, I'm sorry.

Nancy: 12:20

Well, except for the use. Sometimes the e readers have some sort of a adjustment for nightlight. Yes,

Lou: 12:27

good point. Well, yeah, sounds better.

Kevin: 12:29

The Kindle looks different than like a phone because even if you turn like if you turn the dimness down or increase the dimness, whatever, on a phone, it's still like light. Whereas on a Kindle, it kind of looks just like paper, it's not as like bright and stimulating. In your face.

Lou: 12:45

Yeah, I think a lot of people interestingly, still don't know that fact that when you have light and loud noise, you know, it's definitely keeps you awake, doesn't put you in a,

Kevin: 12:58

you know, I realize that depends on the person, Melissa can sleep through anything, she can sleep, like, wow, gets on a plane, she's out, sleeps all time, we're driving around, it's it's soothing to her, I could be having a party, and she's just passed out in the bedroom, like, doesn't even not fazed at all. So it depends on honestly, I think my sleep got a lot more improved. When her and I started living together. She had routines. Yeah, she's very, she puts sleep high up on her priority list. And you know, when you're in a relationship, you tend to work off of each other's habits and adopt new ones between the both of you. And that was one of them was sleep. Going to bed at a certain time waking up at a certain time. And I think I think that's what honestly really improved my sleep. But I'll be honest, like I, I am curious about some of the like, Lou, obviously, you mentioned some of the things in our control that can either help or harmless with our sleep asleep patterns. I feel like I go through cycles of being able to sleep really well for you know, maybe a month and then all of a sudden, there's a week or two where, like, I'll wake up at 2am and I can't fall back asleep. And it's been it's weird, because there's no consistent like there's no changes or variables that have adjusted as far as I can tell within my control. So I wonder what, you know, is there a reason for that? What could cause that any ideas?

Nancy: 14:39

Well, I've actually experienced the same thing and started to notice it. It sounds I'm sure there's something to it, but I haven't done any research on it, but the full moon and it's not just the light of the moon. It's not just the light of the moon. It's really I think there's something different about them

Kevin: 14:55

whenever it is oceans, right?

Nancy: 14:57

Yeah, so all of that gravitation I'll pull I don't know why and how that would impact my sleep. And I bet someone I bet one of our listeners is like, I know about that you could, you could let us know, but also the TV thing. I'm not going to call it fallacy because I think there's truth in it. But for me,

Kevin: 15:17

the TV

Nancy: 15:18

when I can't sleep, it's because thoughts are running through my mind. And the silence is loud, if you know what I mean, like, I can't stand how loud all the thoughts in my mind are, and I need something to counterbalance it. And if I have the TV on, you know, and I don't, I can't watch anything. And I can't watch comedy, because then there's the laugh track and the laughter and, you know, and that's too much like you, you realize in the middle of the night that those laugh tracks are loud and annoying. I need it even keeled kind of show.

Kevin: 15:50

Have you ever tried to sleep story?

Nancy: 15:53

But I'm happy with its work working? Well.

Kevin: 15:57

I play him every night. Yeah, like the same thing that you're saying it kind of gives you something to focus on, so that you're not allowing your thoughts to kind of just keep bouncing around. And the problem is that you'll get into thinking about something that's like something serious or big in your life. Now you're analyzing shit trying to figure it out, versus listening to someone tell a story about something or listening to the TV.

Nancy: 16:24

That sleep stories.

Kevin: 16:27

Um, I have, there's a couple apps. One of them is the calm app, which is a meditation app. I just downloaded a new one called Aura, which has different binaural beats hypnosis meditation. They also have sleep stories, but you can find them on Spotify, even their sleep stories, you can listen to it. Cool idea, because the light from the TV I think bothers me a little bit. I like it when it's real dark, and I can throw on you know, a little sleep story. Yeah.

Lou: 17:01

That's a great point. Because Nancy, I do more I understand a lot more what your what you are talking about when you talk about the TV because when I do have the TV on with a program that actually is detrimental for me meaning news or something that may trigger? I don't know, negative thoughts or anything? Yeah, that's not good for me.

Kevin: 17:24

The one thing that's bad the news? Yeah,

Lou: 17:27

true. What could be worse, things like movies that have violence or something. And I'm not just get you're kind of on edge. But if I'm watching something that is either boring, or keep takes my attention away from my own issues and things going on in life, and I close my eyes, so rather than look at it, because then the light is the issue. I close my eyes and just kind of listen. Yeah, I will actually fall asleep. And have even with the TV still on. Yeah, and get a better quality. It's an excellent point.

Kevin: 18:00

Yeah, but it's not.

Nancy: 18:01

It's not what science tells us. So you know, it's controversial, but that's what works for you. That's what you got to do.

Kevin: 18:07

A documentary, whenever I put on duck documentary on Melissa is out in five minutes. Doesn't matter

Nancy: 18:15

where the shows all the, you know, whatever's about murdered, solving mysteries, and that works for me.

Lou: 18:23

And of course, turn the volume down and have the timer on. And for me that you know, yeah.

Kevin: 18:30

You guys ever, like be watching something late, you kind of get into that alpha brainwave state, you're really relaxed. And maybe you watch for a little too long or play video games. I don't know if either one of us a gamer. But playing video games or doing VR and then going to bed. I like to still have visuals. Like when I close my eyes, I can still see. Like, whatever I was doing, you're engaging. Exactly. That's so weird, right? No, actually, I think that's normal about it is it doesn't happen to you.

Nancy: 19:05

Well, it doesn't happen to me, but it sounds normal. I mean, I think we've talked about this before and that they say when you want to learn new material, like you should study that topic before going to bed. We've talked about this with priming, because then that will be in your mind. So if that's the way your mind is working before you go to bed, then that's the way it's going to still be processing. I feel like that feels like it makes perfect sense.

Kevin: 19:30

You guys have dreams. Yeah, yeah,

Lou: 19:34

I do every I don't remember them unless they wake up right away.

Nancy: 19:37

I don't know if they're every night or not more frequently lately.

Kevin: 19:41

Really. I have dreams all night every night that you can remember. I can remember them. But the problem is the longer that you go, the less you remember unless you write it down. Like I have a dream journal, which I don't run into often because it requires me to get up and write and then if I'm not up at two in the morning that I'm up if I'm if I'm writing shit, but yeah, you write it down and you you get a lot better at read dream recall, the more that you write down even if you like wake up and you write down key words from things you remember, and then go back to sleep when you wake up, read it back, try to remember more of what your dreams were in detail. Oh, yeah, I have dreams in there that I had years ago that I can still remember. Like it was last night. Wow, I had them. That's interesting. I mean, it's weird, because like, when we think of something from our past, something that happened 10 years ago that we remember, kind of feels like it was longer ago than something we remember from, like yesterday or a year ago, right? Like it feels longer ago. The funny thing about dreams, when you train yourself to remember them is a dream that I had two years ago seems just as familiar as a dream that I had last night. Like time doesn't, I don't know, it doesn't affect your memory or experience of those dreams the same way doesn't like physical, living, walking life to weird, but awesome.

Nancy: 21:13

You're gonna transition early, I think.

Lou: 21:17

You analyze your dreams, like, from all of your notes in your journal. Dude, they're weird man. Like, pattern or story or any connection to what's going on.

Kevin: 21:31

Sometimes it'll be something that maybe it was in a movie or something that occurred, but it's just like, so different. And, you know, this is recalling to the best of my ability, but it's a lot of random things happening. Unless it's like a lucid dream. You know, when I become aware of the fact that I'm dreaming, then I kind of control everything. It's less.

Lou: 21:58

Less wild, I

Kevin: 21:59

guess just ends up me like flying and shit,

Nancy: 22:03

craziness. stuff in your mind, I guess. I think there's something to that. I think. I don't know that dream is in your deepest state of sleep. But it does mean you're able to get enough sleep to get your mind into that place. It sounds like it's a good thing.

Kevin: 22:21

You think that dreams occur within our minds? Within our heads within our schools and our brains?

Nancy: 22:29

Do you think it's in your mind?

Kevin: 22:31

I think it's in your mind is mind inside of the skull? Or is mine? Everything? Okay? So mind is just

Nancy: 22:41

put your brain in your mind are different, but your mind is inside the skull with your brain?

Kevin: 22:46

What's the difference? I think I think our brain

Nancy: 22:51

leads the body through the physical actions from what our mind tells it to do. And sometimes one's in charge. And sometimes the other is in charge. Though sorry, ma'am.

Kevin: 23:02

It's like I'm sorry, is your is our mind like consciousness kind of to you like our soul type of thing. Whereas our brain is more the subconscious dealing with the automatic systems and functions that our body does for survival?

Nancy: 23:22

I think so. The mind encompasses both, but the brain is the conscious, roughly. Yeah,

Kevin: 23:30

I've heard an interesting take on dreams that, you know, out of body experiences that we go into like, the fourth dimension when we dream, because our consciousness doesn't need sleep, which is when we're able to download information, which goes into why sometimes if we're thinking about something or a problem, before we go to bed, we wake up with the solution. But then also, a lot of people will dream and have like pre cognition of events that haven't occurred yet that end up happening days or weeks or months later, and the exact detail that they dreamt it, leading some people to think that time is not linear in the dream state. Like it is in our waking state. I think

Nancy: 24:21

premonitions can come to us in our sleep. And I've experienced that. Have you? Yeah, but not just from sleep. It's certainly in my sleep. And there's definitely times that I'll wake up in the in the night with a thought about how I it's either about how I need to proceed in something or recognizing how something else is playing out and how that can impact me or how I need to interact with it. And so, those things will all come to mind while I'm

Kevin: 24:52

sleeping to mind.

Lou: 24:56

I think the mind is being invisible. And the brain being visible, if that makes any sense, like the brain is the matter, the tangible, spongy substance under the skull, what do they each do though? Well, I think of the mind as being like the, this is where the, I guess the sciency part of me comes out, but the chemical reactions, the electrical reactions, all of that stuff that takes that physical matter, and turns it into thoughts and emotions and dreams, and all of the things that help us to operate and function as a human being, as opposed to just being an inanimate object sitting here. So in other words, if the brain couldn't do anything, it would still exist. But when the brain is dead, you have no mind.

Nancy: 25:48

True? Well, sorry,

Lou: 25:50

let me take that you have no mind that you can express outwardly. Your mind might I see the mind as being intangible and spiritual? Or the you know, energy around us? Like, most people aren't gonna see that? Yeah, it's gonna be well, they won't

Nancy: 26:05

see it. But I think it's there. Like, I think that's what mediums connect to. Because whatever of US continues, after the physical body dies, is something that people with you know, people who are really in tune mediums or very, you know, spiritually connected, people are able to have that connection to those thoughts or well wishes or experiences or desires, you know, that these these spirits have so that I think you can express, but you're right, no one can see it. And unless you are really open to it, and connected or connected to someone who can help you.

Lou: 26:44

I see it as the mind separates from the brain. Yeah, now, your body is just a shell, you have the brain still there, this tangible thing that you can see. Now, the mind has moved outside and floated away or what the case may be, it still exists I do because energy is in cratered destroyed, it just changes form. So what is still there, it's just almost like a disconnection from that human shell that we are got it

Kevin: 27:16

feels like the brain is more like a filter, almost. So we have our mind slash consciousness, subconscious super consciousness, right? I think this is the part of us that moves on like you said, Nancy, I feel like the brain is there to help us live a human life, like you said, Lou, like, it's our experiences. But it's also a filter, because we're only experiencing physically, you know, a very small, small fraction of a percentage of what there really is all around us at all times. You know, like, we're very limited in our eyesight, we're very limited in our hearing, there's a lot more going on around us than what we can pick up on. So I feel like the brain helps us make sense of things, but also inhibits us from experiencing so much. And even thinking about like the ego, right, and living with ego. When you're able to lower that egos effects on the world around you and the decisions you make your actions and emotions, and you can just exist or be in awareness and kind of accept the impermanence of everything. You can live more fluidly and find more fulfillment and things. So I think living more from the mind, can can help us

Nancy: 28:39

go with the flow. They say, I guess that's what that refers to be be fluid.

Lou: 28:46

You know, when when I think of folks that are in comas, or folks that are in certain states, of physical being, say someone who's in a vegetative state, but can still see or hear but can't communicate it. That's where I think that connection between the brain and the mind is broken or not broken or damaged. So that some of the circuitry or the wiring or whatever is complete,

Kevin: 29:10

that could be the brain though, the brain could have problems. But the mind still exists. And it's fully formed. That's what I'm saying. You know, yeah,

Lou: 29:18

I agree. I think the mind is there fully functional, fully aware, is trying to, I guess, get across that damaged matter, whatever you want to call it so that it can then express it through the through the physical. Yeah. We have to do that. Yeah, I mean, cuz we're in small. Yep. Exactly.

Kevin: 29:39

Have you ever heard the term higher self?

Nancy: 29:42

Sure. Yes. I'm sure we've talked about it. A lot of ways

Kevin: 29:45

that it's expressed in some of the literature that I go through is that when we come into these bodies, it's not our entire consciousness. It's just a fraction of it. So our higher selves still exists. This in whatever dimension or reality that we were in before we came into this body. So it's only like a fraction. Going back to sleep, a lot of texts go into how we experience transformation while we sleep on a non physical in a non physical way more of a spiritual way. You know, it's not just about our bodies needing to have rest and repair. But getting downloads from our higher self when we're sleeping, which again goes back into obtaining new information when you when you go to bed when you wake up.

Nancy: 30:41

Yeah. And so the mind is well needs that time to process if you will. Yeah. Gosh, my mom is creeping into my, into my mind and talking about your higher self. She, you know, that higher self is like reaching a level of atonement, right. And I can hear her always saying it tellement is that one meant, and in her mind that one that was with God, but whatever your spiritual sense is, you know, and so yeah, that's your, that's your higher self. I have a list of things that steal sleep, and some of them we've already kind of talked about if you want to hear I could share with some of them our ring, of course, we can understand. So room temperature. Yep, sleep themes. One is room temperature. And ideally, you know, it shouldn't be too hot or too cold. But they do say it should be cooler than normal. Light, which we talked about a little bit, but they also say darkness is really important to not let the outside lights in shut. You know, the blackout curtains. Noise,

Kevin: 31:44

light. Light affects your circadian rhythm.

Nancy: 31:47

Yeah, so if it's too much light, right, you can't You're the mind can't shut down or tell the brain to shut down. Yeah, excessive noise. And they're they're mentioning roommates, blaring music or in that case is my neighbor, my high school neighbors behind me having a party, a couple of high school girls craziness. Going to bed worried or angry. Because that stuff's in your mind. So that's kind of like what we're talking about. If you've got some stuck in there that's making you feel one way or another. It's not gonna let you let go. Medications caffeine, alcohol, marijuana. Snoring and snoring I think it's more than just the the idea of the sound but the lack of oxygen and the inconsistency and breathing. And shiftwork. But I think like that is about, like you said, Kevin, the circadian rhythm. And people who do shift work, man their way out of sync often on their circadian rhythm. Yeah, or death, death, or divorce, or a major deadline at work, can cause one to come up to, you know, temporary sleep loss because it creates angst and worry.

Kevin: 33:06

I think it depends for everybody, which Melissa always likes to tell me that everyone requires different things in life, regarding their wellness and wholeness. And I sleep, I think sleep is also one of those things where people need to pay attention to themselves, you know, it's not one size fits all. And you have to really look at what's affecting you. And even like sleep schedules, you know, some people are not, they're not put together to be early risers. And I read that in a book somewhere, but it made sense to me, you know, back when we were hunters and gatherers, it wouldn't make sense for survival for everyone to be on the same sleep schedule. So there are some people they say, that are out there that are not fully aware or awake yet, until like, early afternoon hours. It takes a while to you know, wake up. Yeah, we're just on a different type of schedule. But I did also see something recently about the detrimental effects of like, third shift workers, and having to constantly be trying to sleep during the day. I did that shift. I've done second shift for a while. I did third shift back in the day. And it was really, it was wild. Like it felt I was getting way less sleep. I would maybe sleep for hours. Because I'd be getting home at like 9am trying to go to bed. And it's not easy. You Yeah, and then you're up like by early afternoon and then you go back to work at midnight that evening. It's super different. My mom actually does third shift at the hospital right now. And, you know, there's a lot of challenges with that having to create a space that you can kind of mimic, yeah, night, you know, but then people are cutting their lawns and shit during the day, like there's just more traffic, there's more noise, like it's totally different.

Nancy: 35:19

That's where you have to take those conscious efforts to make it dark and to minimize the noise, because you have to create the environment that you can sleep in. One of my brothers used to do shift work, but it rotated. So they got away from the triple shift, you know, and really made it just two shifts, which made it easier for everybody to kind of acclimate between shifts, and then they would give them four days off between shifts so that you could have some time for your body to adjust. But yeah, making those lifestyle changes that supported that was hard on everyone around them to then it doesn't just impact that person. But the people they live with, yeah,

Lou: 36:00

I'm gonna pivot slightly, still to do with sleep, but just ask you both. Unless we

Nancy: 36:08

move, it's all good.

Lou: 36:10

What do you think of? And have you had any personal experience either with yourself or other people in terms of too much sleep?

Nancy: 36:18

Well, I will say, not that I can think of, but I know that I'm not a Napper. And the thing there is, like, if I were to try to, I know people who cannot, they can take 20 minutes to an hour and then get up and be normal. Again, if I nap in the daytime, there's no really getting going again, it's just that the momentum doesn't follow it. And then I'm just sluggish for the rest of the day. So there's something around that. That's not exactly too much sleep. But it is thing that doesn't work. For me.

Lou: 36:52

That is a very interesting tangent. I don't know if you've seen studies out there. And folks, I encourage you to Google, this is how the European countries do provide certainly Spain siestas, during the middle of the day, for their employees. And they've in their studies, they it's been shown that they are more productive and tend to be more awakened things. So it's certainly a case by case basis. But I found that to be fascinating, because I feel similarly to you when I nap, it's a little tougher for me to get back up to speed and get going. But there are days when I just need to do it. My body's like, you can't keep going, you got to have a little nap here. And I find it very refreshing. But I know for me, there was a point in my life many, many years ago, where I found myself over sleeping. And it was I'm sure a lot of it had to do with my own mental illness challenges. You know, I suffered from depression for many years. And that is a common. A common symptom, I guess of that is oversleeping. But aside from the fact that Oh, is that something that you're doing? Because you don't want to face the day? Or you know, you just don't want to get going, whatever the case may be, what I found is aside from those, what are what am I going to call them? Common Sense? Things about all that, you know, it's like, oh, well, no kidding that that makes sense that that's what that would do, is just the fact that it really makes it made my day even worse. From a productivity standpoint, otherwise, oversleeping just made it even tougher for me to have a productive day, sometimes not at all. And I was I was like, Wow, that's so weird. You would think if you're you get a little bit more sleep than what your body wants it. You'd still be able to get going.

Nancy: 38:44

But at least you sluggish you're saying and I guess that feels like Yeah, yeah, that feels like that would be the opposite side of that research study I read where they're saying you can make up exhausted, you know, physical exhaustion after days of no sleep with eight hours. And so there must be then on the opposite end of that side effects to more than eight hours. I mean, I think people talk about nine or 10. And that's one thing but

Lou: 39:09

but yeah, a lot longer and I would actually be less productive than if I had less sleep.

Kevin: 39:14

You know what to find in this. I read a book on sleep or a couple books on sleep. I was trying to find that there was something I read about Spain. I don't remember exactly, but they took away the siesta thing. And like it increased for some reason, like something like heart disease or something like that. It's coming to my mind, but I don't know what it like increased dramatically out boy, when people were not getting the siestas or naps, like they had a dramatic enough impact on people's health as a whole.

Nancy: 39:52

Do you think that that people actually use that time to rest it's called siesta and maybe they did because ultimately to in the heat of summer like it's just so freakin hot. You've got to wait to do things later in the day. But do you think it's also just a time where they were able to do things they need to do in their day instead of that work pressure, okay, take 20 minutes, inhale your lunch, go back to work, but have two hours, like, you know, lots of medical professionals days are structured around these two hour breaks, they don't take a siesta. But then they have time to get lunch or run an errand to get things done. And then they're feeling productive and accomplished, not just for work, but in their whole life. So it's balance. Maybe it's just about bringing more balance to life, in addition to sleep if you need it.

Lou: 40:44

Yeah, I think it's one of those things where you just listen to your body. And if your body's like, you know, time to go to bed, do it. nap if you need to, but certainly. Yeah, I would say that. I mean, if I was an employer, and I would allow my employees a heck, there's a lot of employers now that let them play foosball, and ping pong, and game play games, all that. So why not have a siesta to well, they do have sleep pods. Now I, I believe at some of these companies, I

Nancy: 41:11

would go to their car at lunch, they literally would go sit in their car at lunch and eat and take a nap and then come back.

Lou: 41:18

You know what, I think I have done that in the past. That's interesting. I don't know if it started out like that. I think I may have gone out to my car for lunch once and going, Oh, I forgot something my gym bag maybe. And then I ended up sitting in there and go, Hey, why don't I just sit here for a little bit and chill? Feels good. Yeah. And then I made it a regular daily thing.

Nancy: 41:38

Especially if the car was warm if it had been sitting in the sun, and you're like, ah, when I came in and feel that that's like, ah, that's funny. Right now I'm spoiled. And in the morning, when my partner leaves, because he leaves at 330 in the morning, he brings me I have lavender, you know, and rice pad that you can stick it in the microwave. And then that'll heats up and then tucks that into bed with me. And that keeps me from waking up when he goes because I hear all these things. And the heat brings a level of relaxation, my whole body just kind of melts into the mattress, and I go back to sleep. Quite a gift to treat.

Lou: 42:20

So then you said you wake up like when he gets up at 330? Or leaves by 330? I assume that wakes you up?

Nancy: 42:28

I hear this and that going on? Yeah. Because I

Lou: 42:31

think what like what Kevin mentioned earlier, if I get up at that time, it's probably hard for me to get back to sleep, I would just get up and go somewhere.

Nancy: 42:38

And I can't have that I'm not converting to that shift.

Lou: 42:46

So it almost will actually let me ask first, do you have any more of those cool tips,

Nancy: 42:52

I have some tips that they provide which some results we have also already mentioned that are good for creating routine when you want better sleep. To set a regular time they say sleep time, but I think it's more about going to bed time, right knowing training your body that you're going to go to bed at a certain time. Some people can fall asleep in 10 minutes, some mean half an hour, whatever it takes, but going to bed at the same time. reduce snoring. Oh, go ahead, Jeff.

Kevin: 43:27

I was just gonna say I read something where it's like creating some type of nighttime routine that helps train your brain to start powering down. So like get a certain time like say eight o'clock not necessarily go to bed, but brush your teeth, drink some water, start reading a book, like off your phone off your TV and get into the routine then go to bed. And I've read you don't want to go into bed unless you're tired. And you don't want to lay there for hours. If you're not falling asleep. You'd want to get up, go read or something do something relaxing. But as soon as like kind of train yourself to where certain time you start powering down once you get in bed, it's time for sleep. And I think that was one of the things about not having a TV in the bedroom, which I do, but it's not having one in there because it's like your bed is supposed to be the place where all you do is sleep or you know have sex or whatever like but mostly sleeping you know not a place to like be chillin, right? So you kind of create that distinction mentally and emotionally. Physiologically. Yeah,

Nancy: 44:34

I think you're right. I've read it to you and then exactly that they say if you wake up and you've been awake for a period of time and you can't go back to sleep then they do say get up and go do something. And I've had people that I've worked with tell me they'll do that they'll get up and they'll whatever it is they choose to do and when they feel the moment coming back on when they then they go lay back down again and are able to do About to sleep. But staying there makes it worse because then your body's confused and you can't sleep and you toss and turn. Yeah. And we do snoring, which, you know, I think people are becoming more proud, great way to say that of using CPAP machines because they know that it's preventing. They're getting the oxygen they need and consistent breathing. And so whether they're snoring or not, it's about really getting consistent breathing and not shutting off the oxygen to your brain. Yeah.

Lou: 45:31

I think what I'm wearing a sign of poor sleep or Yep. Okay.

Nancy: 45:38

And basically, you're, it's not coughing, but it is like your throat is getting blocked. And so you're like, fear, you're gasping for air, because you've whatever's happened, your throat has collapsed, and you're not getting enough oxygen you need so it's your body gasping for oxygen.

Lou: 45:56

So does the snoring is it? The poor sleep that causes the snoring or the snoring that causes the poor sleep is there, I think it's this

Nancy: 46:03

direction. I think it's the snoring that causes the poor sleep because you could be asleep. And then snoring comes. It seems to be that snoring comes in certain positions, a lot of times when people lay on their back, because once you shift your side, it's kind of hard to block the air pipe when you're laying on your side. But if you're on your back, it all can just fall back and block your airways.

Lou: 46:25

I'm sure I snore. But it's so funny. There's been a couple of times are actually my own snoring did wake me up

Nancy: 46:32

to me too. Although I really shouldn't have admitted that. And then what I had said earlier the reason that that I felt like this was aligned to us in our podcast, it says clear your head before bed. You know don't go to bed worried or angry settle problems that you have. Sometimes I know people who say they do it to do lists before they go to bed at night, maybe not the last thing. But in that time, Kevin that you're talking about getting ready. Because if they make the next day's To Do List, they've cleared all the things from their mind that they're worried about, and then it frees them up to let go. Yeah,

Kevin: 47:11

I think that's super important. I also think it's important to have the right amount of pillows for you. And I'll be your preferences because I'm a four pillow kind of guy like, in my head. I cuddle one one between my legs, and I have one behind me for when I roll over. A nice cold one to cuddle. When I go when we go stay somewhere there's only two pillows for me. I'm like, fuck, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna sleep well, like I need to have

Nancy: 47:39

a call service and get some extra pillows. That's why I try. Okay,

Kevin: 47:43

we try.

Lou: 47:44

All right. I used to have a body pillow, which literally was I think taller than me. But it was this, let's say six foot, just huge pillow. And yeah, I used to love that like exactly what you said a hugging pillow or whatever. That I don't know if that is to emulate when you're in the womb or whatever. Because you tend to be more in the fetal position when you when you hug a pillow like that.

Nancy: 48:08

Yeah, I went for my knees. I've got to have if I'm on my side, I've got to have this little tube that goes between my knees and it just keeps my hip and my back.

Kevin: 48:19

It helps your hips. You know what really helps me with sleep though. Like if I'm kind of struggling or I feel like if I have a really big day, the next day, I'm a little bit nervous about something big going on. Like I have trouble sleeping, obviously. One of the things that helps is just putting on like some noise cancelling headphones and playing binaural beats, to kind of help get you into like a trance state. And I feel like eventually you'll just pass out. But it does help like calm you down. Especially if you combine that with some type of meditative practice. You know, the effects can be quick, but just again, like everything that we're saying, it's just kind of powering down, accepting and having the awareness that this is not a time for solving problems or thinking about the past, which, you know, we talk about people having a tendency to do all the time, but just being present. I think sleep can really turn into something that you look forward to. I think a lot of like, people look at sleep like it's a waste of fucking time. Like if I'm not out grinding and making money and it's not worth it. Everybody needs time to just relax and recoup and what better time than when you're sleeping and just allow it to be a healing practice for you. Yeah, you know,

Nancy: 49:44

there are processes that happen to that we need to give time for you know, there's memory storage that's happening processing and storage is happening this digestive processes that happen and and we need to dis give that Time for our bodies as they say, when you're struggling with memory, it's often connected to inconsistent or lack of sleep, because you're not letting your brain have the time that it needs as well to recuperate.

Lou: 50:12

Kevin, that's a very important point that, if anything, I'd like our listeners to really fully grasp is that point there, that when we see or hear about others who are hustling 20 hours a day, or folks on social media who are same thing hustling so many hours a day doing this, doing that spreading themselves, and making it appear that they're able to do that with very little sleep, or forcing themselves to do it with very little sleep, I think is just so disingenuous to all of us because I think we are more productive and more healthy and certainly physically healthier. When we do give our body the proper amount of sleep doesn't mean everyone needs six, or seven or eight, wherever that may be, but don't feel like you need to get less to keep up with others. Or that you need to do whatever amount someone says it should be my opinion is just do what you need. But all of this Keeping Up with the Joneses, I think is it's kind of circular. I think that's leading to a lot of poor quality sleep in our society.

Kevin: 51:18

I think it right. So I found that this and I was looking through this in this book, I finally found this this highlight right, this book is that it was really good. It's called Why We sleep by Matthew Walker. As with countless Greek tragedies, CSI completely batch botched the shit I was saying anyways, as with countless Greek tragedy tragedies, the end result was heartbreaking. But here in the most serious, literal way. None of the individuals had a history of coronary heart disease or stroke at the start of the study indicating the absence of cardiovascular ill health. However, those that abandoned regular CSS went on to suffer a 37% increased risk of death from heart disease across the six year period, relative to those who maintain regular daytime naps. I guess the effect was especially strong and working men. Were the ensuing mortality risk of not napping increased by well over 60%

Nancy: 52:13

While they were napping in that timeframe, and it had an impact on their health.

Kevin: 52:17

Yeah, so it was Greece, not Spain, but yeah, pretty significant.

Nancy: 52:23

Crazy. So you do need those. Those hours? I think you do need the hours, Lou, but follow your body still.

Lou: 52:31

Yeah, well, you know, what's amazing about that is I think folks got into the habit of taking those CSS and since it was kind of a cultural thing. And maybe even I don't know about mandate it, but companies allowed for it it because again, it was part of the entire culture of having this. So if folks are used to what they're doing it they expect it every day changing that up certainly is, in my opinion, going to have a detrimental impact. But

Kevin: 52:57

even

Lou: 52:59

despite that fact, it makes perfect sense that you're doing something that is a refreshing a recharging kind of exercise, to not having that be part of your life. I'm not surprised that the risk of heart attack stroke and all that went up but 60% is huge. That is way beyond statistically significant.

Nancy: 53:19

You just said one key word that I was surprised didn't surface earlier. And it's another thing that actually helps enhance sleep, you know which one that is

Kevin: 53:29

that I said, Yeah.

Nancy: 53:33

Exercise. Exercise, physical activity is known to enhance sleep. Yeah. And it's so important. Yeah, 10 minutes of something a day. And even if it's done in the morning, it still can enhance your sleep at night. So exercise is something that's so important to and we underestimate it you know, we underestimate what exercise is. And it also is kind of put into these categories of comparison, right? And it's just about doing what's right for us and not keeping up with the Joneses. But we need to move.

Lou: 54:10

That's an excellent point. I am surprised I didn't bring it up sooner because as you both know, I tend to get up early, like around five is my regular schedule. That is when I exercise and that is when I keep to that schedule, I have really good quality sleep, when that schedule gets knocked off for whatever reason. I do have less quality sleep and then it becomes like a self perpetuating thing where it's difficult becomes more difficult for me to get back into that groove. But you know, 5am 6am whatever the time is, may not be for everyone. But I will say as I worked myself toward that it wasn't immediate. I worked myself toward that. It brought really great structure to my day and the exercise was the best time to do it. Since it's before work, and boy talk about having really good sleep. Excellent point. Excellent advice.

Nancy: 54:57

Nice. Well, how do you clear your head Firstly,

Lou: 55:02

I do what something Kevin had mentioned earlier, I put on a couple of musical clips that aren't music but the binaural beats, the calming music anything that one takes my focus away from my own challenges while also creating a soothing effect. You know, it's funny when I think of the times when I've had say, a body massage, or even a mani pedi I'm, you know, I'm in the in a situation either in A a massage chair, or I have that very calming music playing and of course, someone's massaging you. So that's really great, too. But I my mindset is in a certain place that is just so relaxed. You hear everything going on, your eyes are shut, you feel like you're asleep, but you're aware of everything. That is the mindset I go for, as I'm as I'm trying to prepare for sleep, and I don't exactly match it, but I get close with with the binaural beats and some of the YouTube videos I have on while I'm preparing.

Nancy: 56:04

Awesome, I can feel that thank you. That was a great way to wrap to give people an image of what you can do to let go of the world around you embrace what Kevin said earlier about being present in the moment, even when you're trying to sleep and letting go. So hopefully you all will find some methods that work to help you enhance your sleep. Thanks for taking some time with us today. Bye, everybody.